FatFIRE55

First, please peruse the following comments by others, most definitely not by me, on the "FatFIRE" thread on Reddit based upon a post a year ago.

I don't want to recapitulate for the billionth time what FIRE means in personal finance language, but if for some bizarre reason you stumble upon this post and are unfamiliar with the term, it stands for Financial Independence/Retire Early.

Most likely, most of those who read this will know what it is and are closer to achieving FIRE than I ever will.  Perhaps it is impossible for me unless I could somehow retire within the next two years, which is highly unlikely.

How fat is FatFIRE?

It's very interesting to me that someone posted "I totally agree that a 401k is not enough (for fat FI/re)." which makes me question how we define Fat FI/re.

It is the opposite spectrum of lean FI/re, certainly. leanfire defines themself as "expenses <= 40K/year) so we're talking savings capped at 1-1.2 million. (3-4% SWR) (although most on that forum have far less than that).

The thing is, I kinda consider the regular FI/re forum to be leanfire, and leanfire to be...... starvingfire? The re-occuring posts of 'don't buy this or that,  save instead' in the regular FI/re forum annoys the hell out of me. I think the gap between FAT fi/re and regular fi/re is much much wider than the gap between fi/re and lean fi/re.

Does FAT fi/re really mean rich? I don't think so. I see FAT as people who could RE but don't, in order to 'fatten up' the savings. Or someone who decides they are "more than on-track" and is okay indulging every now and then.

Should FAT fi/re be some ratio of SWR vs average income in that area?

Theoretical question: If someone had say, 1.5 million, kept working, but just started spending more and coasted at 1.5 million net worth, till they retired and then just lived off that 1.5, would that be Fat FI/re? regular? neither?

PhysicianOnFIRE I think the ability to spend Six Figures a year should qualify as FatFIRE. If using a 4% WR, that's $2.5 million at a minimum. Or $3 Million gives you a 3.33% withdrawal rate.

cptnrandy 2.5 was my original target and it does make us FI.  We'll probably end up North of 4 when my wife retires. The big outstanding uncertainty, of course, is health insurance.

Cujolol That's my definition.  I also think having a safer SWR rate than average, say 3%, is another characteristic.

For me it is ability to spend 10k per month, after taxes and a paid off house. That means $5M - $6M, less if there's some property involved that cashflows nicely.

lmneozoo I can't even think of $120,000 worth of stuff per year to buy lol. My goal is to accumulate as much wealth as possible and when I die my estate will be sold for gold and my corps will be encrusted with it. Sort of like Han Solo, but gold.

inspired2apathy That means $5M - $6M

Why? $120k/yr requires $3M at 4% SWR or $4M at 3%.

ETA: After taxes?

firingaway  This is exactly what I'm planning on. We're shooting for $4M liquid and $1M for a house to live in. Want a little north of $100k/year in income.

adjamc I mentioned wanting $120k/yr in retirement over on the regular fi group and had a few comments pointing me here, so I'd agree with the 6 figure assessment.

lanzaa I think there is an easy way to define leanfire/fire/fatfire. Take a look at the yearly income the person is planning. One short hand for Leanfire is <= $40k/yr and fatfire is > $100k/yr. However, where do those numbers come from?

I think the numbers for leanfire/fire/fatfire correspond roughly to income quintiles. Leanfire people are comfortable being in the bottom 40% of income, fire people are comfortable in the next 40%, and fatfire are comfortable in the next, and top, 20% of income. This 40/40/20 split corresponds, in 2016, to the income levels of <=$42k / between $42k and $110k / and >$110k according to us census data.

Now, one could read and write about the various aspects of FIRE forever and not take it all in.

Reading some posts on the topic this past week, I stumbled across an article that differentiates between three types of FIRE, "Barista FIREs," "lean FIRE" and what I long for, "fat FIRE."

Barista FIRE followers are, more or less, financially independent but maintain part-time employment to help make ends meet.  Lean FIRE followers are those who strive to cut their expenses to the bare-bones minimum and live on less than $40,000 per year.  Through a combination of saving a lot while they are young and then cutting their spending to a bare minimum, these folks envision decades of frugal retirement.

Fat Fire folks aim to accrue enough savings to generate six-figure annual retirement incomes, or higher as you read in some of the above comments.

Considering that I bust my ass all year long with many night meetings, thousands of stressful meetings throughout the workdays and fewer vacation days than I should take to make a bit more than one hundred grand, it sure seems like a pipe dream for a middle class worker bee like me to attain a six figure (or higher) income in retirement.

Or perhaps not.

What is less attainable is the "retire early" part of FIRE for a mensch like me, although I realize that many folks would consider fifty-five an early age to retire.  For the strict adherents to the FIRE movement, however, it is at least ten to fifteen years later than would typically be thought of as early.  Some folks retire at the age of thirty, but it is very rare.  

Should I be able to survive and thrive in the municipal economic development game for another seven years from this November, when I will be turning forty-eight, I would be two-thirds of the way there.  IMRF is a well-funded, well-run retirement fund for municipal workers in Illinois.  

Barely a week goes by that I do not tell someone that us municipal folks are not part of the broke-ass retirement fund run by one of the most poorly run states in the country.  I told someone that three nights ago at a lavish cocktail party that I attended at Navy Pier.

The view from Riva Crab House at Navy Pier.

No Siree, folks.  IMRF holds the gold at the end of my career rainbow, and I could begin collecting about two-thirds of ten grand, or about $6,600, via direct deposit on the first of every month beginning January first of '26.  Making the other third, or about $3,400 per month, is on me.

There are many ways to skin a cat, as there are many ways for a smart mensch like me to scrounge up $3,400 in a month.

There are undoubtedly even more "how to make extra money" posts than there are posts about FIRE, but most of them do not appeal to me, play to my strengths and/or are not great ways to generate $3,400 every single month regardless of the overall economy, current trends and whatnot.

Some are, of course, but as much as I read and think about it, I am unlikely to become an owner of rental properties..  I may hold tens of thousands of shares in REITs, but I do not foresee myself tracking down deadbeat tenants for rent or fixing toilets or sinks.  Far from looking down on that, I wish that I did have those skills and the brashness to purchase income properties without worrying about everything that could go wrong with it.

Things that I am good at are, first and foremost, the field of economic development.  A developer or community could not hire someone much better than myself to represent them in public hearings, petitions, trade shows and whatnot.  The path of least resistance for me to earn an additional $3,400 per month would be as a consultant in the field, although should I end up working twenty, thirty, forty or more hours per week, that is not exactly being retired, is it?  Charging two hundred per hour and working seventeen hours per month would be, at least in my book.

Words and Money

I like words and I like money.

I like reading, saying and typing words.  I like reading, saying and typing words about money.

I would write a money-related post for money for just about anybody on nearly any topic.  Investing, saving, Paying Yourself First, IRAs, trading stocks, buying and selling options, index funds, mutual funds, whatever the f*ck funds.  

The second easiest path to me making an extra $3,400 per month once I turn fifty-five would be through blogging, publishing eBooks, recording voice overs for my own and others' writing, an eCommerce site, reviewing books for pay, helping my children run their businesses or, my favorite, some combination of all of the above.

When I read about fat FIRE, I thought that it might just apply to me in a tangential way.  How cool would it be to write that I do make ten grand a month, but do so by a combination of collecting a pension for two-thirds of the amount at age fifty-five, and hustling for the other third.

I even thought of calling myself FatFIRE55 which, ironically, is a name that would most likely attract a larger number of eyeballs than Money Mensch and, thus, a larger number of clicks on advertisements, thus moving me closer to attaining the status seven years from now.

After all, one of the best ways for those in the FIRE movement to attain the status is to blog about just that.  Mr. Money Mustache generated $400,000 from his blog last year, per an article in this month's issue of Kiplinger's Personal Finance.

As of today, the domain is available for the taking.

So even though I am already older than most of the adherents to the FIRE movement and also have a way to potentially generate two-thirds of the amount required to be a fat FIRE retiree from a way not written about very much, a defined benefit pension plan, I like to think of myself as not only the Money Mensch, but fatFIRE55, a humble middle class guy who strives to be a mensch and maybe, just maybe, will exit from the rat race eighty-six months from now.

But who's counting?